NIO linked this video describing the Asche Experiments in his recent Game Theory, The Asche Experiments and Mass Media. NIO’s work here is excellent. I’d described it as opening a new front in the guerrilla war neoreaction is waging against the mainstream media. If not a new front, then at the very least a huge store of ammunition and a method to get more.
The Asche experiments show the now well-known, well-understood result that people feel social pressure to go along with a crowd even when the crowd is wrong. It is for most neurotypical people a question of social and psychological costs versus benefits. What is the net harm to me for agreeing with wrongsters about the size of a line? What is the net harm to society for agreeing with them? What is the harm to me for truth-telling? Could there even be harm for society if I stubbornly insist upon truth-telling? What if the wrongsters are wrong about something far more important than the size of little lines, like the pervasiveness of “institutional racism” or “rape culture”? And what if a few annoyed or quizzical stares is not the only cost for the truthteller, like loss of social status or a job or worse?
There are some people who can psychologically withstand far more social pressure than is normal. For some, their commitment to truth-telling, “as they see it”, is so great they might endure any punishment or even inflict any social harm in defense of it. This is the dissident spirit of which John Derbyshire spoke so eloquently in the quotation at the bottom of the page. In an age of universal deceit, truth-telling is a revolutionary reactionary act. In a more honest age, however, it is easy to see how an overwrought commitment to truth-telling (“as I see it”) might be a social problem.
So how would we describe a subject in the Asche experiment who stubbornly insisted upon naming the correct length of line over and over again? What if the annoyed stares turned to tsks? What if all the wrongsters started tsking? What if they started insulting the truth-teller? Threatening him? Imagine our truth-teller fighting back, calling the wrongsters on their bullshit. Imagine him saying, “I can do this all day, guys. You’re all full of shit! F-you!!” In a word, this person is antisocial. He is overwhelmingly likely to be male. Also quite likely to be white and of well above average intelligence. He is more likely than average to be autistic, atheist, and hyper-rational.
Welcome to neoreaction.
In this Dishonest Age, the dissident is selected primarily from the most antisocial of the population. I was in a room last night with about 20 such habitual truth-tellers. Surprisingly, they were quite sociable. Alcohol is, of course, quite helpful to this end. But make no mistake: these were people who, in a saner and more honest age, might very well be a danger to the social fabric. Dissidents are dangerous. And the governors of states built on lies rightly fear them.
The Soviet Union was built on lies. The USSR wisely built up a system for detecting and punishing dissent. They set an internal network of paid spies and developed a culture in which many would volunteer to spy for free, and sent millions to the Gulags, which served not only to punish dissent but also isolate antisocial dissenters from mainstream society.
The United States is similarly built upon lies. And yet we have almost purely ad hoc methods for detecting and punishing dissent. We have no Gulags. This is not to say dissent is not punished. It certainly is, but at nowhere near the rates and severity that the Soviets did.
When everybody knew that everybody knew that everybody knew (and so on) that the USSR was just a pack of lies that no one believed, it crumbled like the house of cards that it was. So too, someday, will the United States. So where are the Gulags? America tolerates open dissent from the Mainstream Narrative™, punishes it haphazardly and less severely, using mostly volunteer SJW labor. America has its own versions of Tass and Pravda and even Крокодил, but where are the Gulags?
There are no American Gulags. At least not literal ones. And I think this betrays an almost unbelievable secret about the American Regime: They actually believe their own propaganda. What America has managed to do is not merely to get everyone believing that everyone believes that everyone believes (and so on) that the Constitution is the constitution, but also get its own leaders to believe it. When you read NYT or listen to NPR, you are on the one hand ingesting obvious propaganda spun by the regime; but on the other hand, generally at least, also ingesting the honest-to-goodness totally non-Machiavellian opinions of our power elite. They actually believe, in the main, most of the time, their own bullshit.
Dissidents should take some comfort in this. Ordinarily a regime that fails to guard against its own demise should be despised. How can they be that stupid? But this is not an ordinary case. The American regime despises particularity. It is an acid that eats away at natural bonds and social structures. It deserves to die. If they’ve left the back door unlocked, I’m not going to feel sorry for them when they are robbed. If they’re not going to ship me off to an American Gulag because they are genuinely liberal and believe in, at some level or are at least conflicted about, free speech, I’m not going to complain. Hey, sure, the Constitution is the constitution! Whatever.
[Addenda: A quick note to the disingenuous (or merely stupid) that by claiming the practical non-existence of American Gulags, I’m pointing out the failure of USG to imprison at any significant rate its internal political and ideological enemies. Of course the US imprisons criminals and those who war against her. I’m not particularly interested in that, but on net, I’m glad for it.]
What about the push for controls on free speech under the guise of Net Neutrality? While I agree that a great majority of our enemies believe their own bullshit, at least some of their leaders know they only get away with what they do in no small part due to distraction and disinformation.
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The environment and human nature make it difficult to determine peoples natural inclinations. On a certain level people always follow the herd, but our particular herd is guided by unreality. In a society lead by the theoretical antiversity we could better parse out human nature ( natural preferences and direction ) and herd behavior ( as guided by “nature” not modernity). Naturally any environment, and its inputs has an effect ( there is no control not even the theatrical antiversity) but modernity is extremely unusual. We don’t know how many “natural” allies we have. We don’t even know how many people might agree with one or many of our ideas. That a portion of our ideas were once common sense ( implicit and explicit ) gives me some hope.
On another note I disagree with the comments about antisocial truth seekers to an extent. I doubt all truth seekers would be serious dissidents in a saner regime. Most would have criticisms and disagreements but that doesn’t translate to a “danger to the social fabric”. Some will be undoubtably but most dissidents I suspect would be the power hungry not the truth seekers. I think we can further distinguish between truth seekers and contrarians. A truth seeker might be happy in the right regime a contrarian would never be happy. As to what to do with anti-social truth seekers you give them status but not power and allow them to be academic while others disarm and diffuse their ideas for the public. You don’t put the truth seekers next to the middle class you give them a nice house next to the elites. Certainly a dissident is dangerous when out of place but the art of governing is constructing a outer party for them to waste their efforts on. Clearly the USG can do it. Maybe a reactionary gov could. Every regime will have dissidents I don’t think the overlap is going to be all that large.
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You’re wrong about the USA having no literal gulags.
The USA has torture rooms spread all over the world. The USA has a bigger “gulag archipelago” than the Soviets had.
You haven’t been keeping up with the leaks from Poland, fine, but have you really never heard of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo?
[Ed. Amazing news. Gotta link?]
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you are in the gulag- disqualified, disenfranchised, and (ad hom) dissed! so, “dissident” away: our noisy ruckus isn’t heard except by our fellow prisoners here in the “cyberian” spaces… at least it isn’t cold.
[Ed. not sure what that even means, but hey if it makes ya feel better.]
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Reblogged this on ReactionaryThought and commented:
“…I think this betrays an almost unbelievable secret about the American Regime: They actually believe their own propaganda. What America has managed to do is not merely to get everyone believing that everyone believes that everyone believes (and so on) that the Constitution is the constitution, but also get its own leaders to believe it. When you read NYT or listen to NPR, you are on the one hand ingesting obvious propaganda spun by the regime; but on the other hand, generally at least, also ingesting the honest-to-goodness totally non-Machiavellian opinions of our power elite. They actually believe, in the main, most of the time, their own bullshit.”
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If you need some basic background on the USA’s gulags, start with 170 links at the bottom of the page at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
Seriously, I had assumed that everyone already knew this just from reading newspapers.
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14 million Russians went to the Gulags under Stalin. Comparing extraordinary rendition to that is quite unserious.
[Edit. I might add this is over and above the tens of millions starved to death just because they were of an insufficiently dependent economic class.]
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@Matt Deal
Thanks for visiting. That is good point and it was certainly in my mind when writing. Yes, there are some of the Social Justice Left who want to ban speech, but it is inherently conflicted, and wishes for bans are always contingent, e.g., in this place, at this time, for the sake of whomever (easily triggered). Anglophone communism is much kinder and gentler than Russian. My guess is that Anglophone commies will never truly be willing to do what is necessary to ensure their successful elimination of their enemies. They truly believe that Sunday School moral suasion is sufficient. When Jared Taylor or Ramz Paul or Richard Spencer is led away in chains, I’ll reconsider.
@Watson
Thanks for visiting. I was surprised to see you caught in the mod bin. To the point about dissidents not being dissidents in a saner, more honest time, I think thats exactly right. Most would have no need to be. But there is a certain personality type that is selected for here. And those personality types would exist irrespective of the truthfulness of the regime. We have kind of this mythos of the village atheist as cranky, cynical, insulting, unloving, unloved, unlovable. In ordinary circumstances this sort of personality type is at least a nuisance and could possibly be destabilizing to a community. But in the extraordinary conditions of today, well this is an extremely useful personality type to have around. The orneriness to say “Yo King, yer naked, what a dork!” is beneficial, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t orneriness.
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@nickbsteves
Your average, unincentivized progressive foot soldier lacks the incentive to do what is necessary to properly stifle dissent (re: truth). I fear a coming economic climate in which it’d be rather easy to incentivize at least some prog-proles to take up arms and silence our outspoken leaders. Coward-Piven and all that. Time marches on, technology processes, but human nature is as stalwart as ever. People with shallow-rooted morals can be easily coaxed into doing otherwise unthinkable things. Sorry gotta go hide under my foil hat…
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Cloward-Piven*, obviously. And please excuse the stream of consciousness inherent in a statement as dull as “unincentivized… lacks the incentive”.
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@Matt
Obviously we both hope yer wrong about that. Progressivism is a mile and an inch deep. It doesn’t survive SHTF scenarios. At all. Soon as things go tribal, SJW scolds shut up or die. (~99% shut up) Simple as that. It is absolutely in the regimes interest to keep the legitimacy act afloat. But it is taking increasingly more media bullshit, more free money for Goldman Sachs (& TBTF) and all for dramatically diminishing returns. There is much to be concerned about, of course, but I think the vast bulk of the American public is prepared to take responsibility for themselves and rebuild, if necessary, basic social institutions upon which they rely. Some zones will of course not be salvagable. Take care of your own. Be strong.
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A couple of things you have to factor in are technology/media saturation and dispersal as well as the population. In Russia a lot of areas are and were distant and rural. I would pressume the level of violence employed by the state and the usage of gulags was disproportionatly directed at non urban areas in compensation fot the lack of media effectivness. Also, Russa has multiple peoples and cultures, which always increases the oppression needed. There is also the fact that in Russia they had to uproot the orthodox church and destroy reactionaries. In the west this has been done far more slowly and effectivly, in fact it began with the reformation as we all know. The west being also industrial and media saturated has been easy prey for progressives. The key now will be developing and speeding up the disription of the media/education saturation. They can only enforce their utopia if they have a state and control of the media.
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Nick B Steves really ought to take the peer-reviewed journals to task for lack of “seriousness”:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15575051
N Engl J Med. 2004 Dec 2;351(23):2369-70.
I’m sure they will care a lot about his opinion.
[Ed. No. I’m taking yours to task. Args from authority, especially one as dubious peer review, are invalid.]
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” I would pressume the level of violence employed by the state and the usage of gulags was disproportionatly directed at non urban areas in compensation fot the lack of media effectivness.”
Back when I was reading a lot about WWII, recall perhaps apocryphal tales in which the Germans reached remote villages where the locals thought the Tsar was still in power.
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Further to my comments above, this paper on the FSB religion is gold. This sentence has direct relevance to my assumption on the disproportionate violence in the regions not reached perfectly by media
“What people are thinking in Moscow, they’re doing in the regions'” http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/spiritual-security-in-putins-russia
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Asocial is not the same as antisocial. Also, my OCD (if I had it) is flaring at ‘esplain’ above.
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Hi Exfernal, thanks for visiting. I don’t think anyone said or implied asocial is the same as antisocial.
“Let Me Esplain” is a cultural reference to this:
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The US jails a lot of young blacks in many cases where the political and the criminal may overlap. Since blacks are incapable of committing “hate crimes” the political aspect to many crimes is not considered.
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I have read only the book, and it was decades ago, so the reference went over my head. As for the psychological profile of a dissident, someone asocial would have little problems with telling the truth as he sees it. Someone antisocial wouldn’t stop at mere telling.
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He would try to recreate the world around him to fit his vision better.
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