First it was Spandrell’s Trichotomy. Then Sharlach pointed out that (neo)Reaction was going meta on itself and drafted a couple of maps. Then Nick Land. And then everyone… including me… and now KFB at Radish Mag is wrapping up this beautiful shimmering pile of meta for us in beautiful ribbons and bows. To the uninitiated, to the outside observer, this would all seem sufficiently Meta-(Neo)Reaction, and that we (whoever “we” are) could manage to put it to bed.
But if you think that, you’re wrong.
Oh boy… so not even close…
(Neo)Reaction is now going meta on all that meta. Veteran DEC über-commentator Vladimir started the ball rolling with poignant questions about “nerdy”, “juvenile”, and “self-congratulatory” projects like KFB’s and the casual, pseudo-intellectual ethos that seems in general to be arising in the Reactosphere. Where is this thing going? And do serious intellectuals want to stay around? After all, building a new ideology in one’s garage isn’t as easy as most people think!
Foseti, Scribe of the Reaction, asks, “What’s my motivation here?“. And then answers. Erik and Samson take Vlad’s side. Spandrell and others pile back on Vlad.
Perma-populist VXXC asks Vladimir, “What about Intellectuals ability to govern impresses you so?”
“If Radish can move people to ACT,” VXXC continues, “which is what’s needed, or at least persuade Batista’s Troops to stay in their barracks, then God Save Radish. Radish GETS IT.”
Goulding fights fire with light, and Jim makes his usual timely and apposite remarks. I suggest copulation because that’s what I do best.
The venerable Nick Land posts his own typically measured comments on the matter.
Well it’s good to see everyone in the same room at least. And tho’ they are arguing, they are keeping it down and out of earshot of the children.
These questions, and more, should surely be answered at the DC-Area Reactosphere Meetup this Saturday, at which this scribe shall be in attendance. And if not, then we should have at least have a had some good drinks & smokes.
well
we really do need a tribal identity. whether we like it or not, we’re all pretty much elthedic to progressivism, so being taken seriously means being taken seriously as a tribal threat. if we’re going to be hanged as if we’re all one group anyway, we might as well band together to at least give our executioners a bad day.
what’ll unify us, though? ideology? unlikely. so really the utility of all this supposed dicking around is to give us a chance to develop that unity. (also, bitching about there not being hierarchy in this thing right now is jumping the gun. we’re not strongly tribal enough to hold a hierarchy together if it comes under attack from outside.)
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Hi Raptros:
Well some of us already have perfectly servicable tribes.
I think it’s past time to start the damn antiversity. I would happy to host it at altright.org, which I own. The philosphers can stay there and wikify the universe all day long. Heck, maybe we can even pay ’em… This is what Goulding is always talking about. He’s probably right.
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Threads like that one are so important, we need to start some internal conflicts (staying away from load-bearing structures, of course) in order to grow and adapt. Have no doubt; once we end up on “important peoples'” radar, they will adapt to us. This is a never-ending game, and we’re new entrants with limited experience and a whole lot of opponents. Then again, I never wanted to live forever, anyway. That’s what legacies and civilizations are for.
@ raptros_ this is why I say that the Reaction is nomenclaturally sound: we are literally the reaction to Universalism, and that reaction is what unites us, as Earth would unite against an Alien threat. Hierarchy is important, and while I would like to believe that it would spontaneously emerge if the threat became immanent, I am not confidence.
The Arbiter of the Universe: Who speaks for Universalism?
Universalists: We all do!
TAofU: And who speaks for reaction?
Reactionaries: [tbd]
Maybe that tbd should be an I, not a we.
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i’m working on a post that I hope will explain what I mean better. short answer: we will be able to construct hierarchies only when we can obtain the necessary level of commitment to Reaction,
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TAofU: And who speaks for reaction?
Reactionaries: Nature… or Nature’s God… or both
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“the DC-Area Reactosphere Meetup this Saturday”
Could have notified me.
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hahaha well that’s two things nick b goofed on (he also missed out on a chance to put an obvious blade runner ref in the title)
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It’s a shame that Goulding has decided to take his ball and go home, but his posts in both the Foseti thread and his Goodbye Cruel Reaction post on his page (unlinked, out of respect) suggest a lack of will and an aversion to being unpopular. His stereotypes about Reaction participants come straight from a Daily Kos playbook on Libertarians, and he clearly can’t hack ideas that actually might upset the beautiful people. I guess he wants to be one of them?
I mean, he wrote these words:
Another possibility is that the identification of new political science and game theory with Reaction and right (à la Moldbug) rather than ultra-libertarianism (Szabo, Friedman) or something quite new (Occupy the Cathedral?) is the worst candidate of an admittedly bad bunch, because not only does the Cathedral monopolise status (whilst also being kind of grey and awful in most people’s eyes, I’d say), but things that identify as “right”, and overtly countenance inequality, authority, tradition etc. have been consistently losing for hundreds of years. Sensible people steer clear of loser ideologies.
If that isn’t the core of the Cathedral, I’m not really sure what is. Perhaps someone got to him, made it clear that his chosen career path and his current choice of blog mates was… incompatible?
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@survivingbabel:
Holy shit… I leave you guys alone for 6 hours and look what you’ve done! He was a rising star… looking for funding… hopefully he will find it… out there… wherever. I’m flabbergasted. Okay, won’t link there then.
@Raptros:
hahaha well that’s two things nick b goofed on (he also missed out on a chance to put an obvious blade runner ref in the title)
Okay, I give up. What’d goof up on? I, for one, do not deny goofs. Alas, I have only seen Blade Runner once… a long time ago…
Email to KFB under separate cover.
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not getting in touch w/ dc area bloggers and also not going for the title “more meta than meta”.
re goulding: I now am certain of one thing, which is that I have no idea what he could possibly hope to accomplish.
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He gets a new blog about every week. He’s a bit unsettled. It takes a while.
Ah, more meta than meta. Got it. Hey I’M NOT THE ONE RESPONSIBLE for the DC meetup. I’m traveling almost 4 hrs from NJ. That’s Handle’s department. I thot Handle would handle it. and the list is all bcc so far… so I’ve no idea who’s coming except me and Handle. Probably Foseti and Nydwracu, but beyond that no clue.
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well that’s not the only issue there, let me say that. (i actually started to suspect this sort of thing when he put “peer to peer law”, whatever that is, in his set of things.)
to be honest, I’m just being jealous of this meetup; clearly I’m not going to be making it. agh. well, hope everyone has a good time!
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I’ll be sure to file a report. Where are you? You should see if there’s a quorum in your area?
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down in austin. don’t worry, we’re going to have a thing. maybe we’re a bit paranoid but we’re not going to be talking about it much, though.
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Perma-Populist. I like it.
I like the proles because I am one. I also like their bias for action, which I share.
I like Radish because *It’s.Going.Somewhere.* Notice “we want a FUNCTIONING government”. That’s going somewhere. Speaking of which, the Populace [or proles if you like] NEED Tribunes. Right now they’re literally an Army without leaders. Other than Tea Party Mom’s.
If you don’t know, the stay at home Mom’s that were profiled are *exactly* the Tea Party Leader profile. The Cathedral nailed it, in their usual retarded competence. By competent I mean they correctly identified a threat. By retarded I mean they went after it enough to temporarily suppress it enough that we don’t have to endure President Romney – the very ideal of hapless – but not enough to crush completely. It’s rather dangerous to enrage then fail to destroy. Going after Mom’s tends to enrage. Retarded oppression.
Back to Tribunes: if ye are men, aren’t you rather tired of our women carrying our water?
Do consider it. As to what to offer the populist/proles – the America of 1830-1933 of Constitutional Democracy will do fine. Now that’s a Standard to rally behind.
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Speaking of America’s muscle – this is how tone deaf the Singularity approaching Cathedral is: they want to purge the Army of any Confederate names: and they target of all people ROBERT E. LEE. Again, retarded. Do they know anything about soldiers? America?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/opinion/sunday/misplaced-honor.html?_r=5&
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Hi VXXC, give me America of 1830-1910 and ya got yerself a deal. But the problem is not the system, it’s the religion of the system, and that religion is Progressivism. The trouble is it was well baked into the cake by 1830. The first Roosevelt was a progressive, but a troglodite by today’s standards, and 8 orders of magnitude more sane than any politician today. If we could get him as he was? Great. But would he recognize his own kind in Nancy Pelosi and adapt almost immediately the 100 years of progress that he thought he stood for? Gay marriage, sure why not?
I too am pretty prole. And I am optimistic about their ability ability to follow a Great Leader. When you find one, let me know.
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I don’t see the point in this post. You appear to be masturbating to your new online social clique. What have you done for the Reaction, but mention the Reaction to the Reaction itself? Would you not be better of working on a Cathedral team? Your name dropping skills would serve quite well.
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Mr. Steves,
Why do you want a Great Leader? What’s wrong with Tribunes? I should mention a lot of them.
I’m practical. American Constitutional Democracy – The Constitution and American democracy prior to 1933 – is a standard I think people would get behind, because they ARE. That also solves the important problem of armed, trained, sworn defenders of the Oath to the Constitution or at least greatly mitigates it. That Sir is a Restoration. It’s also working with what you have towards what you are likely to get, as opposed to restoring the Stuarts or Moldbug’s Formalist shareholding concept and so on….
Reaction has many things to offer if it takes up the cause of an American restoration. For instance “A functioning government” …”Not every fool gets the Vote” would resonate with the People. On the latter point we could offer a practical application of Moldbug; his shareholder boards of cops and nurses become local franchise boards and only non-fool responsible types vote. Which is important to democracy.
.>>>>>>**If Reaction can be Practical it has much to Offer the People**<<<<<<<
To return to leaders and Tribunes: the ever practical American people in 09/10 did not offer great leaders, they offered leaderless self generated organizations with stay home Mom's as the organizers. They "get" the leaderless organization. Any Great Leader or even promising one predictably is discredited, usually as not being intellectually hefty enough. Sarah Palin for instance excels at politics but is considered to be a Ditz…this was predictable. And so on.
Not ruling it out, but Great Leaders don't advance alone either. Napoleon for instance rose on the French Revolution and the Army and opportunities it provided.
So unless your arm is broken or sumthun….first the Tribunes.
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Oh and Progressivism? The God that failed. Or will if we’re successful [and even if not]. It has to be exposed as religion that lost it’s God and went MAD. Utterly discredited. Remember it’s only about 150 years old. Tasker – IT MUST BE DISCREDITED AND DISGRACED. Mere truth will suffice.
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VXXC,
A couple counterthoughts.
First, it will be very hard to find Tribunes for the proles, because the first order of business the Cathedral gets around to when proles enter is to de-prole-inate them. I had “potential” in this area years ago, but I couldn’t even get myself to swallow the first teaspoon of bullshit and proclaim it yummy. The only way this could work would be to somehow convince the highest achieving proles to not even set foot in the Cathedral. Stay home, go to a local state school, stay with your people. Monetary incentives ought to do the trick.
Second, while a “rollback” to pre-FDR America may work temporarily, it ignores the main point that Proposition Nationhood is an oxymoron. Unless you can remake America as a Christian nation, it will not hold together. It’s been trying to tear itself apart since its very creation, and I would rather see peaceful dissolution than another bloody secession battle.
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@Donny
Thanks for visiting.
What have you done for the Reaction, but mention the Reaction to the Reaction itself?
What have I done for the Reaction? Well I’ve repopularized the use of the word “whither” for one! You think that’s easy??
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@Survived Babel’s temptation – you are ignoring a tool at hand, the Tea Party. Or what the next logical steps in that vein would be.
I should have been clearer. I was absolutely NOT suggesting running for office. It’s a farce. If you run for office the exact result you describe happens with near certainty.
You are utterly correct. Cathedral capture is a perfect science. You have shown the correct first choice in turning away the poison chalice.
There are other kinds of Tribunes. For instance Saul Alinksy never stood for office.
Tea party moms don’t stand for office.
I wonder what men might do…
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The Tea Party is awfully weak tea; a mile wide and an inch deep if you’ll mix the metaphor. They’re a great asset… if only they could be told what (and what not) to believe in. Yes, Alinsky’s advice might be useful, up to a point.
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Ever tried doubting doubt? Your mind will be blown.
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Hmm. The Tea Party came up from the people spontaneously and elected hundreds nationwide in 2010, including 57 members of the unfortunate Congress. Mom’s kitchen is pretty deep roots. I mean what’s “deep”? I can’t find the old map of 2010 marches but they were all over the country – and remember these are regular people not professional protestors.
I don’t think they want to be told what to believe in, I think that’s the point. Now I don’t think they get us home, the point is the people awoke.
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@VXXC
And where are they now? What, after all, did they believe? And how is protesting going to get it?!!??!!! You protest either to say 1) give us what we want or we will kill you; or 2) give us what we want because we look good on camera. The #2 only works if your a Most Favored Class of Persons… which prole whites definitely are not. That leaves #1… you either follow through on the implicit threat or shut up… the Cathedral’s not going to be listening. 100k+ every January go out and march on Washington to end abortion. 100k is a lot. What effect does it have? Nothing. Even under GOP administrations. Nothing.
And what of all those 2010 congressional freshmen? Have they consistently voted Tea Party? How many are just career politicians? Whence Obamacare and whose head is on the block for that? The system itself is the problem and there is no hope working within it. It must be crushed however long it takes… and it may very well be crushed suddenly by an unexpected crisis. Hopefully The Reaction® will be primed and ready by then. We must be preprared at least with a univocal Organ of Propaganda and a competent professional administration in waiting to take over.
Like you, I have great faith in the American people and in their ability to self-govern… i.e., actually govern, and not pretend to govern by selecting between progressive and progressive 20 years ago. And with a real government in whom there is no pretense of democratic voice, expect the American people to be doing a lot more self-government, not less.
@underground-man
I do it once a day whether I need it or not.
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Nick,
We are in agreement. The point is the people or at least 27% or so of them want their country back. As opposed to 0.27%* who 10 years ago who were even aware that it was swindled out from under them. When I say Tea Party I’m talking about the existence of such a populist movement. That’s something to work with, methods are a different matter. The point is they did rise and self organize. I can’t think of a single movement of the last two centuries that wouldn’t give up their firstborn to have such a people. Americans. Fuck Yeah.
Meanwhile I’m quite sure they’re are many M’uricans who have noticed a dearth of Tribunes and leaders to speak for them. Or organize and lead them..wherever the path of Victory leads.
A Dark and Dangerous path it may be indeed. However stay at Home Moms …aren’t gonna get us there….nor are protests or elections. So whence are this people’s Tribunes?
Well they’re blogging and getting ready for a catastrophe to make their big move. How Brave.
How Noble. How NOT.
*90% of that 0.27% being in on the scam.
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